18 replies to this topic

[Vrflyer]

Few weeks ago i was experimenting with two low quality cmos cameras and modified goggle to do 3D vision. Immediatly I was impress and it was evident I was on something very interesting.

The principle was easy. I use two identical cameras looking staight front and transmitting the two pictures on two differents channels.

I decided to modify my I-vision 922 goggle by incorporating a second video module (Kopin) inside the goggle and connect the second display to it. I did not want to pay for a new goggle so i bought defect goggle from Rangevideo at half price, only the control box was defect. I also received another Kopin module for free the weeks after...

I ordered from Aeropix one KX131/ transmitter/ receiver. I will run the two tx and cameras with one 4.8Vdc Ni-mh battery, so i don't need regulators or capacitors on the tx. I also did not install the channel selector making them quite small.

So I received everything last week. I hate tripod and i prefer installing a second receiver on my goggle cap, I dismantled my goggle cap to install the two receivers on the cap sides, looking like a Martian now

I made differents test and i can say the 3D effect is stunning. I see clearly objects in front of others, building at severals hundred feets in front appear clearly distant from the sky. No doubt in my head 3D vision will be a big improvement in FPV flying.

I made test with two transmitter close togheter or two receivers close togheter, and I did not find any problem, I will try two tx close (6 inc.) in flight. My intention is to put the two tx on each wing at half distance on the wing, transmitters install under the wings with the antennas passing true the wing to point up.

I would like eventually to interlace the two cameras signals to reduce complexity, but at the relatively low cost of equipements today, my way is interesting too. It allow to have full 30 frame per eyes, interlace will give only 15 fps per eye.

I will try it in flight tomorrow if the winds are not too strong.

Edited by Vrflyer, 16 September 2007 - 08:54 PM.

[Terry]

I know this was looked into a long time ago but I don't remember how well it worked. It's good to see you working on it, it should suit your type of flying Dennis I wait with interest.

Terry

[Vrflyer]

I remember 3 peoples who tried it. Two tested it on the bench and was not sure if it could help, another oe have tried it on r/c car.

I made a flight this morning and I'm not very impress by the result. The 3D effect appear only when we are close to object, i can confirm inflight it have no utility because no depth effect appear unless I pass very close to trees. For the first test the two cameras had the same distance of my eyes, I will now distance the two cameras to enhance the 3D effect.

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[Terry]

Yes I think it was on the old RC-Cam forum, after 30ft the 3d effect is lost. I seem to remember someone put the cameras on the wing tips to help with this.

Terry

[Kilrah]

I guess increasing distance will be better when far from objects, but then it will look completely wrong when close to something. If I imagine flying like yesterday between trees, cams with 1m separation when you pass through a 2m50 wide "gate" would feel VERY awkward. Like thinking you're hitting both sides simultaneously when you're actually perfectly centered

Edited by Kilrah, 17 September 2007 - 09:57 AM.

[Terry]

Not very practical for head tracking either !!!

Terry

[Vrflyer]

I increased the distance between two cameras to 11cm. It help, the 3D effect was better. I will change my wide angle lens to standards lens for the tomorrow flight. I must go to work

[Vrflyer]

Not very practical for head tracking either !!!

Terry

By mounting the two cameras on two servo, but it will be near imposible for the two cameras to stay align.

[Kilrah]

Not very practical for head tracking either !!!

Terry

Indeed

Or, you can make yourself a big pan/tilt mount... assign the head tracker to rudder/elevator

[Vrflyer]

The two cameras must be well align to get a good picture or I will need to cross-eye

Mounting the cameras at wing tips puzzle me. The wings must be stiff, it can move up/down, but do not twist. I would install them at half distance on the wings, and choose plane with more robust wings than my easystar.

I tried with two standards lens today, 3D effect was really cool when I flown close to ground, passing near me is awesome. I see clearly the depth and no doubt it help me lot. But when i fly at 100ft and over, it have no utility.

I get poor range presently and the camera servo always move lightly indicating poor reception of my receiver. The two batteries and many wire are in the cockpit. I will move the cameras battery outside the fuse over the wing keeping a good distance between my cameras setup and plane equipement.

On ground the effect is spectacular, on my bench or outside in front of my house the picture is really beautifull. I tried on my bench with two cameras side by side, and the 3D effect was still there, but less evident. I will try it on my r/c car to see what is the minimal distance I should kept with object when cameras are glue togheter to know if I can install a dashboard and see it clearly, I doubt.

[Hartwig]

Hi Denis, the lens is the key. The wider their angle the less separation, the less 3D effect. A standard or even more telescopic lens should give best results.
I found a cool page some time ago, maybe some things on this page are interesting for you:

http://www.petesproj...tion5.htm#5.1.1

Please keep us updated, I'm curiuosly looking forward to your next posts

Edited by Hartwig, 12 October 2007 - 07:58 AM.

[Vrflyer]

Thank you Hartwig
I found this article on 3D vision many years ago, I pay few buck to get the complete documentation.
I did not read it since a while. A normal separation distance of 2.5 inc like human eye give a 3D effect up to 200ft, it confirm what I see. Pete said me it was around 30m max, but I had impression it was farther.
When I use standard lens and separate cam at 5 inc, I can see a light difference in the picture up to 300-400ft, but it's subtil. At 200ft, 3D appear clearly so to fly around obstacle it's perfect.
Since my previous post, I only fly again one time with decent weather condition. With wind, the plane stability is a lot affect by these two cameras.
I'm very satisfy of the result, it's just a little bulky and heavy.

I installed the cameras on my r/c car to see what was the potential. I glue the two cameras togheter side to side, knowing the ground or body part will appear in the picture, I need the minimal separation. The result is deceiving, it's imposiible with my r/c car to get a decent picture, the ground appear double while the object farther appear ok. Even when cameras are tilt to see less ground, it's not good. It should work well if the cameras where install on a big r/c car, the cameras should be at severals feet from the ground, but on miniature r/c car it's unusable.

I was interested to find a way to interlace the two signals mainly for r/c car application. For planes, I prefer using two separate Kopin modules inside the goggle with the advantage it give, no flickering in the picture, and more reliabilty by doubling the circuits. I will receive others Fatshark's cameras in the winter, theses cam are very light and consumme few current, it will help, so I will use lighter servos and lighter battery.

I got an I-vision 922 headset brand new for sale. Few month ago, Andrés if I remember well had a defective 12V adapter that burnt his control box.
Rangevideo immediatly send another control box and adapter to Andrés.
Remembering that, I buyed the goggle only with some cables that left to Rangevideo at $125. Few days after buying the goggle, I found another Kopin module from another source for free... ( no he don't have others modules...)

So I never use the Rangevideo goggle, I use only the cables for another project, and the cable become defective (open) after few days

The Kopin module is a good quality display, it's all around the display that not good quality... Many cies had buyed the Kopin module alone and build their own design around it with very cheap components.

The goggle are for sell at $125 shipping include
(I will duplicate this offer in the appropriate section)

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Edited by Vrflyer, 16 October 2007 - 07:37 AM.

[wmarton]

Hi Vrflyer,

I am new to this forum, but having some electronics background and quite interested on how did you modifay the I-vision 922 headset.
Do you have pictures of the Kopin modules inside and/or data sheets with signal description? What is the input video format of a Kopin module (=output format of the control box)?
And why do you say, you needed second Kopin module - I would think, there are 2 of them in the googles, one just needs to be reconnected to another channel (control box) to allow stereovision. Exactly the schematic of this reconnection is what I am interested on, can you help me on this?

regards from Germany,
Walter

[Kilrah]

The "control box" doesn't do anything to the video, it only houses the battery/charger and audio stuff. The video goes into the goggles as is, where you can find a PCB with a conversion chipset (most likely video->VGA). There is only one chipset with one output, and both LCDs are connected to that output.
To modify like he did, you need to find a second PCB, disconnect one LCD from the existing board, and connect it to the second board, with all the wiring involved.

[mieczotronix]

just my two cents
- try increasing camera resolution (maybe kx-151 instead of 131), your brain will obviously get more data to process and to develop 3d vision
- I don't think you'll have problems with aligning two cameras mounted on separate servos, from what I've experienced with my vision system and my brain after an accident some time ago, which messed up alignment of my eyes I can tell you human brain is pretty well adaptive and will easily compensate for slight misalignment of two images. Maybe it will require some training (like seing those stereograms that were the hit in late 90's) but nothing exceptional.
So with cameras spaced 1 m away dont expect to get problems with double/vision and cross-eyes. The only problem likely to occur would be if you''ll be flying close to some obstacles as someone else has pointed out above.

[cfe7]

Funny this topic should appear just now.
I used to work for CAA Norway earlier. My main tasks there were non-commercial aviation and UAV.
One month ago I left the CAA and joined a engineering company, mainly involved in constructions for the Norwegian oil industry. The company is also involved in 3D displays, and I have my FPV equipment. So I suggested we join the FPV equipment and 3D capability. Everyone loved this, and the results will follow early next year.
You can take a look here:
http://www.3d-ip.com...tePaper-GVZ.pdf
http://www.3d-ip.com...l/index_ie.html

We will perform some test on RC cars first. Later we’ll try out my own creation named Ghost. This is a fixed wing aircraft with internal lightning for nighttime FPV. You’ll learn more about it later this winter.

[pache11]

http://www.3d-ip.com...tePaper-GVZ.pdf

updated link for last post

[FFooccuuss]

I noticed that the Rvision-D (and similar: FutureHobbies FH630, etc.) have a 3D (L/R) setting on the remote, and RangeVideo's ad says "3D display is a now a standard feature with Rvision goggles." Does anyone know how to take advantage of the stereoscopic 3D effect with these goggles? Will it somehow take two different video inputs? I'd like to get two cameras going for stereo vision (despite the posts that suggest it's more hassle than it's worth). Any insight on this is much appreciated.

[Daytona]

I noticed that the Rvision-D (and similar: FutureHobbies FH630, etc.) have a 3D (L/R) setting on the remote, and RangeVideo's ad says "3D display is a now a standard feature with Rvision goggles." Does anyone know how to take advantage of the stereoscopic 3D effect with these goggles? Will it somehow take two different video inputs? I'd like to get two cameras going for stereo vision (despite the posts that suggest it's more hassle than it's worth). Any insight on this is much appreciated.

Hi,

Here's some copy and pasting about the Goggles we sell on the subject of how the 3D part works:

Particularly its stereo viewing function makes you enjoy the 3D stereo movies on normal DVD players and recorders , which can be only felt in stereo cinema beofore.

It has adjusting buttons for screen brightness, volume and 2D/3D switch. When using it for 3D stereo viewing of movies, it works stereoscopically only with AV input and the content sources(such as 3D DVD) need to be field sequential stereo format.

They only take one input and for 3D you need to have a special DVD player outputting in a special format, unfortunately. Two separate inputs, one for each eye, would be too easy!

Simon