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Attention: RC-CAM.com will be closing down August 2021.

The RC-Cam.com forum was the very first online community dedicated to the advancement of wireless video cameras on radio controlled (R/C) models. This is now called "FPV" (First Person View). We are proud of the contributions that our members have made to the FPV hobby.

We've seen significant changes over the last twenty years. Initially there were a lot of eager R/C hobbyist that built their own video systems. Allowing these creative individuals to share their work was the purpose of this site. Now the FPV market is flooded with low cost systems; Sadly DiY FPV video projects are now rarely discussed.

RC-CAM.com (main site and forum) will be closing down August 2021. This is being announced now (March 2021) so that everyone has time to download any information that is important to them. After the site is shutdown the information will no longer be available here.

We appreciate every member's involvement with advancing the FPV hobby. It is indeed sad to say goodbye to all our online friends. Be safe and stay healthy.



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Piece of cake, and really flexible... be it hovering 1m away from yourself or rushing 100m up at whatever speed... As expected keeps the freedom of the heli, but wiping all the drawbacks

That sounds great, thanks for the feedback.

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About the MK I also had prop problems. I had ordered the electronics etc directly from their shop, but as they don't carry hardware I ordered the props and a frame from lipoly.de. I ordered both simultaneously on Oct. 10th, received the MK stuff like 5 days later, while it's been nearly a month now and I still haven't seen anything from lipoly, and no answer to anything  :angry:

Fortunately after 2 weeks of waiting I ordered more props from another place and got those normally last week.

www.cnc-modellsport.de have a larger selection of counterrotating props from both GWS (EPP1045, but also different 3-bladed props) and APC-E and APC-SF electric props. The latter of course are heavier and probably not ideal for small motors and light frames. But they do break less easilly and some people fly fine with them. So far cnc have always provided very prompt service on all my orders.

Edited by Arthur P.
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That's where I've ordered the ones I'm using now. Ordered there after 2 weeks of waiting for lipoly.

I can get the 3-bladed GWS locally. Haven't bought any though, the consideration being that they're more annoying for transport (I have an alu case in mind). The APC-E have a pitch that seems a bit high for the motors I have and their Kv.

I've filed a paypal dispute with lipoly, and miraculously received an answer the next day saying the frame I had ordered would be in stock next week "hopefully".

That will be 5-6 weeks till it's here. Not like it would have been worth telling me about this when I inquired about delivery in 1 week before ordering, or replacing the default "your goods will ship as soon as the amount is recieved" in the bill before I paid it. :angry:

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Man these things are simply amazing! I am particularly fascinated by the use of GPS on these. I have been flying FPV for three years now but haven't tried using any kind of heli. I might have to start looking into getting one of these. On the "someday" list. LOL!

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Piece of cake, and really flexible... be it hovering 1m away from yourself or rushing 100m up at whatever speed... As expected keeps the freedom of the heli, but wiping all the drawbacks

I take it that it is much easier to fly than a heli ?

If yes why do you think it is ?

Terry

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Oh yes, of course...

Firstly it has a clean and rather neutral behavior with no side effects, as opposed to my heli that for example would require some down elevator proportional to forward speed, and would just pitch up to vertical if I released the elevator in forward flight... Then the active stabilisation does a very good job, for example if you let the stick go the thing will more or less level by itself. The stick acts more or less as an attitude command. Hold the stick in its position, the aircraft keeps this attidude. That's a more direct feeling than having to center the stick to stop the movement.

It's also cleaner in fast descents for example, where the heli starts "ballooning" much easier.

The behavior is more predictable, hard to explain but you'll feel very confident with it in no time, while the heli stays stressful every time. One of the reasons is that if you do a bad landing and tip over on one side for example it won't care a single bit, the ~3gr props have so low energy they won't even break... and even if they do it's no big deal at $2 a piece and 30 secs to replace, while the same on a heli means bent axles and several broken parts, downtime and maintenance...

The only little snag I have now is that the thing will continuously slightly oscillate on the pitch/roll axes. It gets a bit annoying after some time. I haven't been able to get rid of that with adjustments, but I guess I know where that comes from. The prop mounts that are supplied with the motors are everything but straight, so 3 out of the 4 induce some vibrations. As everything is mounted rigidly this is transmitted to the sensors on the mainboard and is seen as noise there, which must induce the oscillations. If I check the waveforms on the debug program I can clearly see that the noise on the acclerometers goes WAY up when the motors are running, even with the thing flat on the ground and no props attached.

It is known that the prop mounts are bad, and I had ordered some better ones, but of course, they're in the parcel I'm still waiting for.

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Thanks for that Kilrah, I am tempted to join the quad gang but something keeps in my head says a heli should be better. Mabe you can share some video and convince me once and for all ;)

Terry

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The stick acts more or less as an attitude command. Hold the stick in its position, the aircraft keeps this attidude. That's a more direct feeling than having to center the stick to stop the movement.

Kilrah, that's would be counter-intuitive for me, in fact it will be like flying a helicopter with FMA co-pilot or Carvec installed. But its a good thing for FPV flying.

Did you get a chance to fly it on a windy day?

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Did you get a chance to fly it on a windy day?

Moderately only. And today is really too much for a first try, hehe.

I have about 1 hour of video now, but all in crappy light conditions, badly attached camera (some vibration) etc, but I'll still try putting something together this week-end.

Here's a pic of the test rig, there with a DragonOSD strapped on it.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b105/Kil.../P1020497_s.jpg

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  • 2 months later...

Yep, that's the toy version. Not good for anything but hover in your living room, which gets really boring after less than 30 mins...

It dates back from 2005 and has been discontinued several months ago. As like all cool stuff it has been copied by some Chinese manufacturers, there might still be some copies around. They were flying even worse than the original though...

Edited by Kilrah
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Yep, that's the toy version. Not good for anything but hover in your living room, which gets really boring after less than 30 mins...

It dates back from 2005 and has been discontinued several months ago. As like all cool stuff it has been copied by some Chinese manufacturers, there might still be some copies around. They were flying even worse than the original though...

Could be interesting though to scale it up to 8 feet with blinking leds around the perimeter and flying it at night....

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Yep, that's the toy version. Not good for anything but hover in your living room, which gets really boring after less than 30 mins...

It dates back from 2005 and has been discontinued several months ago. As like all cool stuff it has been copied by some Chinese manufacturers, there might still be some copies around. They were flying even worse than the original though...

Hey RON!!! Good to finally see you here!!!! ;) Welcome to RC-CAM!!!! So did you dig up the chemicals and copper clads yet? :D

Edited by JMS
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Been here 3 days now. A lot to read & pack into 4 brain cells. Acid & boards still packed away. Still have to concentrate on getting my house on wheels ready for the road. Maybe one of these days you'll find me in Duncan (summertime of course).

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  • 3 weeks later...

utomo,

I don't understand German either.

The Mikrokopter Wicki site now includes translations of a number of the key documents into English.

For the rest I used http://translate.google.com/translate_t. The Mikrokpter Forum has a section for 'Our International Friends' in English, and an English button at the top to translate the rest (can be pretty weird at times!). RCGroups has a very long running thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=716870 which is exclusivley in English.

I bought parts from Germany using links on the Mikrokopter site and if you are patient they will answer queries in English.

Good luck, lots of fun to be had!

regards Peter

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About this forum, it's been quite a while since 2003 and still we see very much helpfull people indeed. That's why I really like this forum and thanks for Mr. RC-CAM for it.

utomo,

I don't understand German either.

The Mikrokopter Wicki site now includes translations of a number of the key documents into English.

For the rest I used http://translate.google.com/translate_t. The Mikrokpter Forum has a section for 'Our International Friends' in English, and an English button at the top to translate the rest (can be pretty weird at times!). RCGroups has a very long running thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=716870 which is exclusivley in English.

I bought parts from Germany using links on the Mikrokopter site and if you are patient they will answer queries in English.

Good luck, lots of fun to be had!

regards Peter

Yes Peter I have already doing the google translation and also read ( download it :D ) the entire thread from rcgroups earlier, but somehow it's a different setup compare to the Mikrokopter site.

Ok i'm not going to jump into building it, maybe... just maybe anyone who could read germans make a list of links here parts to buy, etc.... it would be nice, easier and make more things clearly.

btw, thanks Peter.

Regards

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Little update from my side: as those following the thread in 'RCGroups.com / Aerial Photography / Multikopter build thread' know, I-ve had a few setbacks along the way which resulted eventually in having 4 flightready Mikrokopter flightcontrollers, multiple sets of converted TowerPro ESCs, and Richard's v.2 of the PWM2PPM converter to be able to interface the Spektrum AR7000 to the flightcontroler. I still have to finalize wiring up the PWM2PPM converters today, but I should have 3 APMk's (Aerial Photography MultiKopters, or in a pun at my initials Arthur P M's kopters) ready for test-flights sometime tomorrow. These three all have the same frame design with rapidly removable motor arms with integrated LED lighting (using the BECs on the ESCs), 25cm high landing gear (6mm carbon rods), 2mm model-building plywood frame (19cm diameter), and 2mm model-building plywood gimballed self-leveling camera mount with tilt servo. They do have different motors: Turnigy 2213, Turnigy 2217 and HYX 3542, and thus different ARTF weights (estimated from 1300 to 2200 grams including camera). Current frame hub is rather high, with a battery bay large enough to house up to 2x 4s 5000mAh Lipos. On the 4th frame I-ll be changing that a bit, reducing the height of the hub from just over 15cm to about 12.5cm and improve the way of (dis)mounting the landing gear. Whole frame should be packagable in a small box, about 20x16x40cm large, and assembled within minutes at site.

Edited by Arthur P.
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  • 4 weeks later...

That toy is the standard X-UFO with a mechanical gyro. Not very stable for more than a minute or so.

It has taken quite some time, but I have two of my four APMk's (Aerial Photography Multi-kopters; but also derived from my initials ;) ) flying since last week. First outdoor testflights ocurred with winds gusting to 45kmh, no problem. APMk nr 1 has Turnigy 2213/20 motors and EPP1045 props, RTF weight about 1350g, will fly a bit over 6 minutes on a 2150mAh 11.1V lipo. APMk nr 2 has Turnigy 2217/20 motors and currently still EPP1045 props, RTF weight about 1550g, will fly a bit over 11 minutes on a 4000mAh 11.1V lipo. For the smaller motors I will have to get the RTF weight down to well below 1000g, probably somewhere in the 800-900g range. APMk nr 2 really isn't breaking out in a sweat with those mid-sized motors. I-ll probably also try GWS 10x6 three bladed props and maybe even APC 12x3.8 SF props on those to see what gets me the best balance re performance. In addition, weights above 1500g are a bit high for the frail EPP props.

I did have a bit of a fiery adventure with APMk nr 3, with four HYX3542C motors, 5000mAh 11.1V lipo, and APC-E 12x6 props cut down to 11 inch. RTF weight of that one is about 2150g, but with max thrust close to 2000g per motor, that should still allow quite some cargo. Problem that occurred was that on first testflight, after rising 1.5m without any problems, on going into a hover, one of the motors suddenly developed extreme vibrations, the axle going back and forth up to 2cm !! Emergency landing resulted in a tipover, causing two props to be blocked. Before I had righted the craft the two involved ESCs were on fire. How's that for special effects.... :o

Besides the turned burned ESCs no further damage to motors and electronics. Cause of the very quick burnout was most likely that these motors can handle up to 45A while these TowerPro 25A ESCs, type 2 with "hot" FETs which can rapidly overheat on low loads, of course should not go beyond 33A max for just a couple of seconds. Cause of the vibration was most likely resonance vibration of the 4mm thick plywood motor-mount. All four motors show roughly the same behaviour, with no vibration at any throttle setting with the props turning in the wrong direction, but sudden vibration between 1/2 and 2/3 throttle when turning in the normal direction and thus pulling up on the motormount and arm. The severity differs a bit with two motors showing extreme vibration, one of which had already caused the motormount to start splitting. So time for a stiffer, thicker mount, before going for a next test flight with heavy APMk nr 3.

More details and pics in the RC Groups aerial photography forum, in the Multikopter build thread.

post-2251-1205867015_thumb.jpg

Edited by Arthur P.
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